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	<title>Comments on: marketing monday: green is dead, long live green</title>
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	<link>http://www.mrcleantech.com/2009/08/marketing-monday-green-is-dead-long-live-green/</link>
	<description>A dedicated cleantech search engine (try it and suggest other URLs) and blog from a cleantech marketing executive on cleantech people, issues and companies. Contact me on Twitter @mrCleantech</description>
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		<title>By: William Brent&#8217;s Search for Cleantech</title>
		<link>http://www.mrcleantech.com/2009/08/marketing-monday-green-is-dead-long-live-green/comment-page-1/#comment-48548</link>
		<dc:creator>William Brent&#8217;s Search for Cleantech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrcleantech.com/2009/08/marketing-monday-green-is-dead-long-live-green/#comment-48548</guid>
		<description>[...] already made my argument that ”sustainability” and “green” are obsolete terms, and over the last year there appears to be growing mainstream momentum (it originated out of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] already made my argument that ”sustainability” and “green” are obsolete terms, and over the last year there appears to be growing mainstream momentum (it originated out of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Lavis</title>
		<link>http://www.mrcleantech.com/2009/08/marketing-monday-green-is-dead-long-live-green/comment-page-1/#comment-13649</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Lavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrcleantech.com/2009/08/marketing-monday-green-is-dead-long-live-green/#comment-13649</guid>
		<description>Hi William. I first caught your related article on 3P, and have been thinking about your question. My background is environmental system science and ecology, and with you in PR, I think it is evident of gains that we could even have a meaningful conversation on the topic without rehashing definitions and topics to be on a similar page.

I think for starters that the name you give something has a lot to do with what that thing is for. i.e. Green was to raise awareness surrounding environmental and sustainable development issues. Green was never meant to be the name of a new profession, like psychology. 

So are you looking for essentially a new PR term, or a new functional term that has some sort of measurable, practical application? Or both? Or do you want a new fundamental principle? For instance, the &quot;precautionary approach&quot; is a principle, and it is thrown around a lot - it is even in some acts and legislation - but I have yet to see someone give a qualitative description of risk factors to describe it. However, within the field of environmental assessments, for particular parameters, risk levels are set by which to pass or reject certain proposed development projects, and one could say that this is the precautionary approach in action. Then again, one could also say that these environmental assessments are the result of green thinking and awareness.

It seems to me you are looking for something &quot;non fuzzy&quot; that could be used in labelling and branding and would actually mean something quantifiable or at least qualitatively identifiable? The thing is that even with that sometimes a slippery slope is involved. Take &quot;Organic&quot;. The criteria for a product that is certified as organic has changed over the years, and there are numerous systems of certifications. How is a consumer supposed to keep up? 

Almost like predator/prey or parasite/host competitive systems, there is a struggle between those would would bring quality products to market in what is a win-win system for company/consumer, and those who would be imitators with less quality resulting in a win-lose system. Now, here is a question, I&#039;m not an economist, but isn&#039;t that the goal in capitalistic systems, such that the end goal is to reach a win-lose system on resources? This is my primary issue with economic theory.

So, there are those who seem to authentically be trying, with reference to fairly independent rigorous scientific standards available, to be producing products that are environmentally low impact, energy efficient, match the best labour laws, are non polluting in manufacture process, are least harm on human and animal health and welfare, and also have non-polluting packaging and other end products. How can they best identify that they are doing this and communicate that to customers? Is that what you are seekign? &quot;Cradle-to-Cradle&quot;, of McDonough and Braungart was one term that was born and died with the reputation of McDonough, but it did rather capture I belive the end goal in making human manfacturing and product cycles more in line with ecological cycles and systems.

Is the cradle-to-cradle label the kind of thing you are looking for? Or something broader? More holistic? More bio-socio-economic?  How about &quot;eco-nomic&quot;. Eco was in the word after all...all this time, and we are only now really waking up to it. &quot;Eco&quot; means house in the end, and it&#039;s good to see we are finally recognizing we share it, and trying to tidy it up, and even put up a shiny new plaque at the entrance to call our home, so others may recognize the clean and healthy part. I&#039;d even call it &quot;eco-logical&quot; that we&#039;re getting our heads around that line of thought at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi William. I first caught your related article on 3P, and have been thinking about your question. My background is environmental system science and ecology, and with you in PR, I think it is evident of gains that we could even have a meaningful conversation on the topic without rehashing definitions and topics to be on a similar page.</p>
<p>I think for starters that the name you give something has a lot to do with what that thing is for. i.e. Green was to raise awareness surrounding environmental and sustainable development issues. Green was never meant to be the name of a new profession, like psychology. </p>
<p>So are you looking for essentially a new PR term, or a new functional term that has some sort of measurable, practical application? Or both? Or do you want a new fundamental principle? For instance, the "precautionary approach" is a principle, and it is thrown around a lot &#8211; it is even in some acts and legislation &#8211; but I have yet to see someone give a qualitative description of risk factors to describe it. However, within the field of environmental assessments, for particular parameters, risk levels are set by which to pass or reject certain proposed development projects, and one could say that this is the precautionary approach in action. Then again, one could also say that these environmental assessments are the result of green thinking and awareness.</p>
<p>It seems to me you are looking for something "non fuzzy" that could be used in labelling and branding and would actually mean something quantifiable or at least qualitatively identifiable? The thing is that even with that sometimes a slippery slope is involved. Take "Organic". The criteria for a product that is certified as organic has changed over the years, and there are numerous systems of certifications. How is a consumer supposed to keep up? </p>
<p>Almost like predator/prey or parasite/host competitive systems, there is a struggle between those would would bring quality products to market in what is a win-win system for company/consumer, and those who would be imitators with less quality resulting in a win-lose system. Now, here is a question, I'm not an economist, but isn't that the goal in capitalistic systems, such that the end goal is to reach a win-lose system on resources? This is my primary issue with economic theory.</p>
<p>So, there are those who seem to authentically be trying, with reference to fairly independent rigorous scientific standards available, to be producing products that are environmentally low impact, energy efficient, match the best labour laws, are non polluting in manufacture process, are least harm on human and animal health and welfare, and also have non-polluting packaging and other end products. How can they best identify that they are doing this and communicate that to customers? Is that what you are seekign? "Cradle-to-Cradle", of McDonough and Braungart was one term that was born and died with the reputation of McDonough, but it did rather capture I belive the end goal in making human manfacturing and product cycles more in line with ecological cycles and systems.</p>
<p>Is the cradle-to-cradle label the kind of thing you are looking for? Or something broader? More holistic? More bio-socio-economic?  How about "eco-nomic". Eco was in the word after all...all this time, and we are only now really waking up to it. "Eco" means house in the end, and it's good to see we are finally recognizing we share it, and trying to tidy it up, and even put up a shiny new plaque at the entrance to call our home, so others may recognize the clean and healthy part. I'd even call it "eco-logical" that we're getting our heads around that line of thought at all.</p>
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